Harmful Dirty Electricity

POWER Magazine's Executive Editor Aaron Larson interviews CEO B.D. Erickson II on the attributes of Dirty Electricity and the power generation industry.

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Aaron Larson is the Executive Editor of POWER. POWER is a media brand focused on the power generation industry.  It covers all generation technologies, including nuclear, coal, natural gas, wind, solar, hydropower, geothermal, and more. He makes content decisions, conducts interviews with leading industry experts, curates articles, and speaks at power-related conferences and events held around the world. 

electricity distorted

Aaron welcomed B.D. Erickson II for a featured interview on Power. Over the course of the interview, B.D. demonstrates how dirty electricity negatively impacts our daily lives and highlights how electromagnetic fields affects the growth of plants, the production of dairy, and the quality of strawberries. He also explains the eight attributes of electricity that need to be within an acceptable range and describes how solar inverters are uniquely responsible for generating dangerous levels of dirty electricity.

Transcript

Aaron Larson: Hi everyone! This is Aaron Larson, Executive Editor of the Power Magazine and you are listening to the Power podcast. On today’s episode, I’m joined by B.D. Erickson. He is the CEO of Satic Incorporated. And B.D., I would like to have you tell a little bit about yourself and your company.

B.D. Erickson: Well, thank you having me Aaron! Satic Solar is the most prolific solar company in Western Montana, potentially the state, we haven’t fact-checked that recently. Part of it is because we’re awesome, part of it is because we don’t have that much competition, solar is a little bit newer to Western Montana, but it works great up here in the cold despite what some people believe about northern exposure it still works great. Satic Incorporated and Satic USA is actually our licensed engineering and manufacturing firm. We manufacture a couple of key components specifically to serve the solar industry.

Aaron: I guess I would like to hear what the components are and what they are used for. Can you expand a little bit on that?

B.D.: I would love to! It takes a little backstory, so, growing up in Western Montana, my family had a company called Sunwise, we weren’t the owners of it my dad was a partner, and Sunwise Solar manufactured American made hot air solar panels. So growing up, not only did the house that I lived in as a kid have solar on them, they had solar panels made from my father’s factory. And we had dealers all over the West, all over the United States, mostly the Pacific Northwest like Seattle to Nebraska. So the solar business is something that has been on my mind and in my heart truly for a lifetime. I lived in Hawaii for a couple of years while my wife was in grad school and she was killed in an auto accident. We moved to Missoula, Montana, my son and I and unaware bought a house under some really big power lines, and his attitude and health went from exemplary, perfect A’s in school and perfect attendance after a year to lagging, being sickly and being a little blue and melancholy which was not his sort. So that took me down a road of personal investigation about high tension power lines, about electricity in general, and specifically dirty electricity. And so, Aaron, Satic USA is 13 years old now and the products we make are truly a result of a single dad’s relentless pursuit to help his ailing son. And what we’ve discovered is that dirty electricity, it’s real, it’s measurable, and it has now been proven beyond any reasonable contestation to be harmful to the biological. So there are things in our lives that create more dirty electricity and if that’s something that someone is concerned with, it’s certainly easy to filter it. And one of the conversations we have a lot is specifically about solar is: it’s green, is it clean? And lots of times there’s a disconnect there between what clean electricity really is. And so in a lot of people’s minds it’s clean in that it’s not some old coal-fired plant that mining all of this material out of the Earth and burning it in smokey stacks, right? Renewable energy is clean that way. But the current itself, the electrical current has some attributes that would describe it or categorize it as dirty or clean. And the reality is that most of us have experienced dirty electricity in our lives! We simply didn’t know at the time what we were experiencing. For example, I grew up in the 80’s and I would come home from school and I would watch The Carol Burnett Show and Gilligan’s Island. When my mom would vacuum, Aaron, it would put lines in the TV, and so I would race up and touch the TV ears because you know in my head at 11 or 12 that’s how we got a clear signal. I know now as an adult that my mom’s vacuum was actually distorting the electricity and that was causing the TV to have that distortion or interference. We don’t see that today because electricity is so dirty in the modern world that TV’s actually have filters in them. I think most of us at some point have heard our sister’s blow dryer on our radio. How? Many times you charge your phone, and this time specifically it gets really hot and you don’t know why because it didn’t get hot the first 20 times it charged, but now it is. Your DVR is very warm almost all the time. And I assure you the back of your fridge or the back of your freezer is warmer then it really needs to be. These are all signs of the appearance and the reality of dirty electricity. So the question there becomes: “Hey, if I cleaned that electricity what would I get?” Well, the result is very clear! A cool DVR, clear audio/visual, a cool fast charging phone, and heat is not free. When you’re not converting those precious watts in heat, your bill goes down, your stuff last longer, and that potential question there of is it bad for my equipment, is it bad for my family or the biological? When you remove it for one, you remove it from the other. And so we have spent a decade, I’m excellent team builder and I believe that to be true, I’ve got some of the best engineers in the area, and we’ve worked relentlessly to make sort of a Britta filter. When we were kids, the best drink of water was a cool drink of water from the hose. And we drink from the hose anymore, all we drink is bottled water or filtered water, it’s just a part of our popular culture. So, one way to get there is filtered water. This product, if you will, is like a water filter. It wires or plugs in at your breaker panel and then acts like a filter. It simply cleans, filters and regulates that power coming from the grid or solar, doesn’t matter where, so that home, family, office, you name it, gets clean, filtered and regulated power.

Aaron: That’s really interesting. I mean, it’s kind of surprising that we don’t hear more about this because, as you said you know, it’s affecting your son’s health and probably affects many many other people’s health in some way, shape or form. Why don’t we hear more about this?

B.D.: That’s a great question and I’ll tell you the truth, I’m not a person that can feel it, I’m not a person that’s sickly, um, I often joke that I can eat a half eaten corn dog that I found in the garbage can at the fair and feel good and not get sick. So as a person that doesn’t feel it, I’m kind of embarrassed to say, I kind of poo-pooed it and then I kind of just began to do my own research, and not a really deep dive in the beginning, just a very cursory overview. And there is so much written on it! Why is it not more in the main stream? I’ve got some theories on that, and I’ll start with this, everybody know what the grass looks like under the power lines. Well, on the back of our property has some of the biggest power lines in definitely all of Missoula, Montana where we live, and we never had to mow under them, the grass is totally dead right directly under them, and then yellow and then green in our yard. So the grass under power lines isn’t bushier, right? It’s usually bushiless, which hints at something, right? Dairy cows! Dairy is a billion maybe trillion dollar industry with not only milk but ice cream and butter and cream cheese and sour cream and all of it. Well, it’s well documented by Merigold and DairyGold, the big guys at the top, all the way down to the Amish. In Montana, we do solar for a lot of them. They’ve taught me so much! The quality, the production, the volume of the milk is absolutely un-equivocated and affected by the result of dirty electricity. Dairy cows won’t even step in a puddle if there’s stray voltage. And then finally, I read a lot of papers from greenhouses, indoor grows about the quality of a strawberry or about the size of succulents of produce when effected by dirty electricity. So those in the know, they certainly know. Why has it not come to greater attention to us as consumers and individuals? I’m not exactly sure, Aaron. Is it just suppressed and overlooked? Your guess.

Aaron: And I can imagine that we can spend the whole show talking about dirty electricity and I don’t want to go down that path too far. But, I would still like to have a better understanding of what exactly causes electricity to be dirty? You know, obviously the power companies are making power and generating electricity by spinning the turbine and shooting for a target of 60 Hertz for electricity at 120 volts into your outlet, so what makes it dirty?

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B.D.: That’s a great question! And I’ll tell you unequivocally that it’s not the utilities fault, I mean, we live in America, we have the cleanest and cheapest power on the planet. I know areas that are north of me in Northern Idaho where power is four cents a kilowatt hour and exceedingly clean. Dirty electricity specifically comes from three different culprit places: number one it’s delivered to our panel, number two we make it with our electronics, our solar inverters, our LED lighting, our DC devices and the wiring in our home, maybe a half mile of quality copper wiring acts as a super antennae. So, that’s how we get dirty electricity into our house. What defines it specifically is that it’s electricity that has distortion, interference, low power factor, etc. on it. How does that happen? Well, where I live in Western Montana, we have hydropower. It’s very clean, it’s very inexpensive, but the hydro dam is about 150 miles from my house. So that very clean very regulated 120 volt/ 60 Hertz, I mean you can push it to about 160,000 you know what I’m saying...

Aaron: Yeah..

B.D.: .. it leaves clean. But how many car washes and beauty schools does it pass before it gets to me? So as we were talking about somebody vacuuming when you’re maybe watching a movie, and this drives the audio files nuts, when your mini-fridge comes on you hear that tick or click or pop in the speakers. That drives them nuts because that takes you maybe out of Avatar where you’re daydreaming while watching this movie and back into a theatre situation. What happened when that motor came on, it inrushed, it pulled electricity because it has such an inductive load and that had an effect on other things. So not to get too technical or lost in the weeds, but a lot of electricity has 8 attributes that need to be within an acceptable realm, and if they’re not within that acceptable realm, they are considered dirty. So one is the voltage and that’s the pressure circuit of 120 volts lined in neutral, usually 240 phase to phase in residential. And I usually because in three phase, it’s 208. So the first one’s the volts. The second is the amps, the actual flow of electrons, its other name is the current because that’s how much is actually flowing. Next is the watt, and that’s product. That’s what we buy and that’s total power. Next are electromagnetic fields. Well, electromagnetic fields power our world. They’re the things that make things spin, they’re the things that create work. Well that electromagnetic field has an effect on the electricity in lowering power factor. If you lower the power factor, now you need the same amount of amps to the same amount of work. Those extra amps get converted into heat, that’s why motors in the back of the fridge and such get warm. Next is total harmonic distortion and interference. Well, what’s that? That the extra frequencies that are not the 60 primary frequency. And, you know, ham radio guys know that interference is real. When you have two wires close together, those cause interference and those will start talking. Harmonics, interference and distortion are real and they’re ancillary waves that create heat that will slow your phone down when charging and things like that. Next is Ohm’s Law of Resistance. As we move along the current, we lose some along the way to heat. So when you have more amps than you need, when you have more losses to heat, as you move things you have primary frequency, of course, that’s 60 Hertz. So we have volts, amps, watts, total harmonic distortion, electromagnetic fields, interference, primary frequency, and Ulm’s Law. And somewhere in there we have to sneak power factor. So, what happens when the power leaves the dam? It’s in all of those things. It’s fully regulated. But as stated, electricity can get dirty, it can get distorted usually by the use of devices. We live in an alternating current world. Half the stuff we plug in these days is in alternating current. Anything with battery is DC. So your phone, it’s not like your family has one phone like we used to when I was a kid there was one phone! The family phone! Well, now families have five phones, right?, one for each member! But we all have a tablet or device, we have computers, we have switch mode power supplies and we have lighting. To be candid, 20 years ago, maybe 30, there was not a great need for our products. Our products are one of things that really came onto the scene and can add value because of the change in technology. And things like that happen! It’s like 20 years ago there was a Blockbuster video on every corner and now Blockbuster doesn’t exist because we get digital delivery. We just do something different. So we used to use Edison’s lightbulb for 130 years we used an incandescent lightbulb which is simply a resister and it clean energy. So according to the Department of Energy, we all have about 30 lightbulbs if our life. Is that true? I don’t know, it’s probably pretty close, and so we all had 20 or 30 energy cleaners. Well then we swapped it out for the fluorescent, the curly-q, and now we’ve swapped that out for LED. So now we’ve gone from having 20 or 30 electricity cleaners to having 20 or 30 electricity dirtiers, one of the few culprits we call. And LED is a diode so they flicker, they actually strobe, they strobe at 60 Hertz. So that has a negative effect on dirty electricity. So what happened? So, a lot of us have solar and a solar inverter creates a lot of dirty electricity, EMF and distortion, we switched our lighting, and we started using all of these tech devices. None of that is wrong, none of that is sinister! Nobody did it to hurt anybody, and we certainly aren’t trying to blame solar on the power company because that blame doesn’t lay at their feet. It’s just something that has changed in our world, Aaron, it’s just the way that we use electricity has changed and nothing caught up. Nobody addressed it, and the phone companies , they don’t want to tell you, right? The tablet companies, they don’t want to tell you, the lightbulb companies, they don’t want to tell you, so I’m not saying they’re sinister, but if they know they’re doing something, would they really shout it from the rooftops? Probably not. So simply, potentially, inadvertently enough and maybe innocently enough, we have just changed our lives in the modern world, created massive amounts of dirty electricity, and it’s here, it’s here to stay. But I’ll tell you what, if it’s of interest, you can filter it. And when you filter it, the results are immediate! You don’t have to wait a month like with solar to see your bill! You can see it, you can feel it, you can hear it in real time. The amp draws, your air conditioner might go from five amps to two and running better and running quieter. Now if you’re paying seven cents a kilowatt hour, that doesn’t change your life, you’re barely going to feel it, but the air conditioner enjoys it, he’s going to last longer, and if you go solar like us, then that’s a lot bigger difference when you’re trying to make it on your roof! If you’ve got young children, they’re developing and they’re more susceptible to dirty electricity. Filtering it, it’s measurable, you get to see it in real time. Solar companies love it because it helps us get more bang for the buck out of the solar array. Again, when the air conditioner, freezer, fridge, some of the big energy hogs are working on less amps, that beneficial. When the DVR or the things in the house, the back of the refrigerator are cooler, now our air conditioner gets to run less, that helps us. And if there is someone in the family who is EHS, Electro-hypersensitivity, you may google that it’s very interesting, then you take that potential harm aspect out of it. And one of the great things about installing it with solar is a lot of times, you know once we engage our customer, they’re going to shop, you know and they are certainly free to do that, or maybe when another company sees that they’ve pulled the permit, it’s a mad dash to get to your customer when you’ve spent the time nurturing them, you’ve spent the time with lead generation with them and now someone comes to undercut them, that really disheartening in our business. Giving them something that they can install now, giving them something that’s interesting that nobody else had, giving them something that you can demonstrate with a meter right now gives you a specific and fun new angle, a decidedly better offering, and once you start installing stuff, it’s a sticky product so the attrition rate that we have found for most our dealers is cut by half or greater. And what we do, we include a meter so that you can plug the meter in and see the distortion, the interference before in real time, you plug the filter in or you turn the breaker on and you see it drop by 90, 95, 99% right in front of your eyes so you know in that moment that it’s working.

Aaron: And you have mentioned solar and that solar inverters produce a lot of electrical pollution. What specifically makes them more polluting I guess I would say?

B.D.: Well that’s a great question and I want to be really clear to our listeners, I am the biggest solar dealer in Western Montana, I grew up in solar and I love it, I’m not here to be negative at all, I am pro solar and certainly not to bash it. It’s just a functionality of how the inverter works, right?, because what we’re taking is maybe 17 volts of direct current at the first panel or 500 or 600 depending on your string, excuse me, by the last panel. And now what we’re trying to do is give two legs of 120 volts alternating current and good phase quality and good power factor and a good frequency and they deliver on that. They do. And nearly every inverter brand that we’ve tested as good voltage, good frequency and good power factor. What they lack or where the functionality is less than ideal is this EMF, electromagnetic fields, which are a part of their functionality, interference and distortion, so there are two or three meters on the market that are kind of the standard of the industry, are they the worst or the best? I don’t know about that, I will just say that they are the most commonly used. When we plug these meters into the average Bill and Joan Smith’s home in America, we usually see a number of 300-600, that’s gauz or minivolts depending on the meter. And you know, it really should be 50 or less. If you have 50 or less, you know, you have clean acceptable electricity. But, most homes don’t have that, they have 300-500. So they have six to ten times that acceptable level of dirty electricity. We’ve never tested a home with solar, and we’ve tested thousands, we’ve never been able to test one and find a reading under 1,000 when the solar is on. In fact, most of these meters only go to two or three thousand and despite the brand or quality of the inverter, many times it pegs these meters out at two or three thousand. So at night when the inverter shuts off, but during the day when the solar is functioning you might a 10 to 100x number or amount of dirty electricity because of solar’s functionality.

 

Aaron: So when you install this filter, I mean I understand how it can filter out spikes for instance if things are higher than they should then it could, you know, temper that down. But if something goes lower then it should be, I can’t imagine how it could raise it. Is there a certain sweet spot in where this works well? Or can it somehow manipulate the outputs appropriately in other directions?

B.D.: So, that’s a great question! So we have two basic types of load in alternating current. A resistive load that does that very thing it resists it. So the burner on your stove is just a big resister, it pushes back and it gives off heat, so it’s pushing against. The other kind is inductive load and it pulls, it’s like sucking on a straw if you will, and that’s your air conditioner, your freezer, refrigerator, your things with motors. And when they pull, they pull what they want, they pull what they need, you know, it’s not regulated by the panel of any device, they pull what they need to create the proper electromagnetic field and create their work. So like a five amp air conditioner motor, he pulls five amps, and whatever electricity is available to him is what he’s going to pull, there’s nothing, you know, smart in there that’s going to adjust that. When you put a filter there, you know on the load side, on the downstream side of that, that this power is clean and it’s regulated, that motor by itself will draw less. And there’s nothing really brilliant or, you know, nothing is switching in there or is simply a result of the other. And there are a handful of components in the unit because not all of these attributes take the same kind of device. So you know, for voltage, for cleaning up voltage you have to do two things: One, you have to trim the peaks, right?, and maybe dump the dips. So the way you trim the peaks are with some kind of surge protector or barrister where, simply if you’re at 120 volts, once you get to 130, start to convert that into heat so you can keep that voltage at a max pace. And these units are very robust surge protectors. So they are very high quality, robust surge protectors for the whole entire home and the facility. So your air conditioner, you big TV and all that stuff is covered. Next, the amps can be lowered with power factor, good power factor can lower amps. This does not always lower watts, it depends on how your power company is billed so you’ve got to be careful of how we describe that. But whenever you lower amps, you lower heat. You lower total power, you lower current, you lower Ohm’s Law of Resistance, and then we use harmonic rectifiers to filter interference, to filter distortion, to filter those electromagnetic fields and those frequencies to help maintain one 60 Hertz wave. It’s very measurable in real time, with an amp meter, you can simply throw the amp meter over the A or B leg in the home or office, turn the unit on or off and watch the amps go down in real time. You can use these plug-in meters, plug them around the house and turn the machine on or off, and watch it in real time. So, I don’t know if I fully answered your question there, but most devices know what they want, most devices know what they need, and frankly they would like to be cooler!

satic clean energy

Aaron: Now, I’ll just give you an example, I’m in Florida, and our power company Florida Power and Light offers this surge protector that goes on our meter and then they warranty all of our appliances from lightning strikes because in Florida, I don’t know if you’ve ever been here or other listeners have been here, but we get very serious lightening storms and so there’s always the potential that your line is going to get struck and you’re going to have a surge; and so they put these surge protectors on, warranty your appliances. So, would your device basically do something similar? Or would it eliminate the need for that kind of surge protection?

B.D.: Man, that is a great question and our company, Satic, has got a very unique connection with the state of Florida. So first of all, yes, it’s a very robust surge protector, you don’t have to pay monthly for it, if you bought our unit you are now covered. It’s an American made product, with a ten year guarantee and supplementary insurance to the homeowners. Often times the homeowners will cover that kind of stuff, so ours kind of pick sup where it left off, but there are two kind of unique stories that happened in Florida. First of all, we were going to be on the Home Shopping Network about 12 or 13 years ago with our generation one plug-in model, and when we went to go get on the Home Shopping Network, the buyers and the personalities loved it, loved the product, you know for health, for clean electricity, for help making your bill go down, but Quality Assurance was like ‘Man, we got to make sure this thing really works! We can’t let this guy go on TV and tell America that it will make your bill go down or protect home and family until we’re really sure that it delivers on that.’ And so their electrical engineer and quality assurance sent me to get a lot of third party studies. So the first thing he did was put it on his own home, put it on his daughter’s home, he started testing it and putting it on the desks of those beautiful ladies that work at the Home Shopping Network, and then he sent me to get some third party studies, to have some third party labs really study it over several months and give me the results. Well, his personal power bill went down about 18%, and that’s similar to what his daughter experienced as well. And the third party studies came back exemplary, better than we actually hoped for. The reason we were never on the Home Shopping Network was because you needed 50,000 pieces that, you know, needed to be shipped within 24 hours, that’s their promise, and we were simply not that big at the time, we couldn’t have that many units prepared, packaged and ready to go, we couldn’t ship them. But what came out of that was incredible third party studies from both labs and universities and a really fun engineer at the Home Shopping Network who became a personal friend and a delight individual. The second is the Tampa International Airport. The Tampa International Airport about five years ago made a big transfer to LED, and the salesman that was selling the LED’s actually reached out to us and said ‘Hey, you know we’re doing a multi-million dollar conversion here to LED and Florida is the lightening capital of the world..’ and he described some things like bolt lightening and some things that I’m not familiar with in Montana, and if I’ve said them wrong forgive me I’m not trying to be technical, he just described some things that I’m not familiar with. And so I explained what the products do, and in one of the terminals where they landed the power for the LED’s, they bought seven of our units, and they put our units on seven of the breaker panels now that we’re going to be powering this $2 million in advanced LED lighting which was designed to look better in appearance and lower their power bill. Well, guess what? They had some kind of lightening, they had a catastrophic surge and it wiped out, I think, close to 50 or 60 breaker panels. I don’t know that exactly but I’ll have to look. But there was a ton a damage, a ton of televisions, a ton of computers, a lot of equipment was lost. Uniquely, the seven panels that had our units didn’t even record an anomaly. Our units filtered it so perfectly that the computers, the screens didn’t even blimp, it was perfect. And that’s one of the best testimonials for that that we’ve ever gotten because they didn’t do it for health, they didn’t do it to save money, they did it specifically to protect a really big investment in lightening.

 

Aaron: Well, I don’t want to turn this into a sales pitch, but you’re making a very strong case for this equipment. So, how much does it cost? What would it cost for me to put this on my home?

 

B.D.: So a plug-in unit is about $200, and you need two because the electrical system in your home has two legs or two phases, A and B. So you want to get one on an A and one on a B. You know, if your home is larger, you got the second air conditioner, if you’re a little more blessed, you might want four, two on A and two on B, so that’s about $800. Or, you wire it at the panel, the cost is very similar, about $1000-$1100. Usually, and there’s no always or never in life, the older I get the more rare the always and never are, they usually pay for themselves in two years. They’re a 10 year American made warranty. So, certainly in the life of the product, it will pay for itself, you know, two to five times depending on your power bill, and we’re not all the same, you know, if it’s a single person that likes their house a little warmer or a family who likes their house cooler and the fridge and freezer door open, you know life is different. They’re a robust surge protector, they reduce the EMF which is great for family health, they remove the distortion and lower your bill. We have over 85,000 installed, we’ve been in business for 13 years and, I know I don’t want to make it into a pitch either, genuinely, we love what we do. You know, we almost ended up on this road by accident just by a diligent search, and now we’re able to work with some of the greatest solar companies in America to lower natural resources and bills and potentially help protect people from health issues, what could be a better life?

 

Aaron: Yeah. So these plug in models, do you just ship them in and then I can plug them in to an outlet and they’re working? Is that how it goes?

 

B.D.: That’s exactly correct! And what we encourage a lot of our customers to do is go ahead and buy a meter, we have meters for about $100, buy a meter from us so you can do several things with it: number one you can identify how much dirty electricity you have. Do you even need it? You know, lets say we send you this stuff and you plug in this stuff and you’re under 50, you don’t need it! Send it all back. 100% money back guarantee. All the products are guaranteed to perform or your money back. So number one, do you need it? Plug it in and you’ll know. Number two, where are your hot spots? Where are your outlets? You don’t want to plug it into an outlet that says 200, you want to plug it into an outlet that maybe says 2,000. So number two, it really helps you identify where to plug it in, and you will see the second you plug it in, it's working. It’s not like you have to wait, you have to wait for your bill, or any of that. Identify a couple of hot spots, make sure you plug in, let's say you get four, plug in two on A and two on B, it's very easy to find A and B, instructions come, very comprehensive instructions come with the units. They usually ship same day, so in two or three days, you got them, you plug them in, immediately going through the house now with your meter you can see that it’s down. And you may even just want to buy a meter. Say you know what I’m going to make a purchase here, I don’t want to buy my own I don’t think I need it, if you’ll be on your honor you’ll send it back, we’ll lend you one of ours, just please just drop it back in the postage for $15 and send it back, or keep it and buy it if you love it and play the game.

 

Aaron: And so by plugging them, let’s say you get two of them, and you plug one into an outlet that has shown to have a high amount of dirty electricity and then you plug it into another, it’s protecting your whole house, it’s not just protecting those two outlets?

B.D.: That’s correct. You’ve gotten your whole home now.

Aaron: Okay. Well, I’m going to have to look into this a little bit more, B.D., I think you’re selling me on the option, it sounds pretty interesting!

B.D.: Well, Aaron, I would love to send you one for free just so that you can see it! You know whenever we talk about something or promote it, I think that we want to believe people because deep in our hearts we want to be friends and we want to love people. Unfortunately, what happens in today’s world maybe something doesn’t work as advertised OR sometimes people just drink their own kool-aid. You know, they’re not being dishonest, they're just drinking their own juice. And I have certainly been guilty of that in the past just because I’m the sort that gets enthusiastic. We are kind of like Missouri, we want people to see it. We want you to believe us because we’re helping our own people, but sometimes you just need to see it with your eyes and so we are always happy to deliver on that.

Aaron: Well I don’t think I can accept a free trial because it would be a conflict of my editorial position, but I do appreciate the offer. And I’ve learned a lot talking with you here today and I do really appreciate your time. Is there anything else you wanted to mention before we closed up the podcast?

B.D.: No, that’s so admiral of you. I’m really grateful, I know you have a lot of great listeners and they’re kindred spirits in our group here, and I wanted to thank you personally for the time here, I’m really grateful that you interviewed us today.

Aaron: Well, thank you very much and I will definitely be looking into it, I will send you a check and we will get one in the mail here sometime soon.

B.D.: We’d love it.

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